Uncategorized

Christian dilemma the two natures of Jesus Christ

20200508_061542

■ last updated: 10th June 2020

By: Mustafa Sahin

In this article, we shall respond to the Christian Trinitarian assertion, that Jesus has two natures. One being fully human, while being fully God. Christians have invented this theology to address the many controversial issues in the Bible, when talking with Muslims, and debating the idea that Jesus is God. When Muslims bring up many verses showing flaws in Jesus Christ that prove Jesus is not devine, the Christians in response use a get away car, to suggest that Jesus has two natures. So when Jesus feels hungry or needs to sleep, or He feels pain, or at times, He is helpless, and at times, not all knowing. Christians argue, that these qualities of Jesus are just his humanely attributes, which is distinct from his Godly nature. And so since Christians have “opened” the can of Worms” I shall demonstrate that when Christians invent new ideas into the Bible, to fix a problem they have in fact Created more problems for themselves, and we shall now explore those problems.

1 – Where are the explicit Words of Jesus having TWO natures?

The first Question I like to ask Christians is, where did Jesus, Paul or any of Jesus Desciples claim that ” Jesus had two nature”. And I know what Christians are thinking, they are reading this and saying, well that’s easy I’ll just pull a verse from there, that shows Jesus is God. Then I’ll bring a verse from over there too, show Jesus has human attributes, and there you go, here I’ve proved Jesus has TWO natures.

Here is the problem, anyone can get a verse, then force his own interpretation. One would imagine that in the entire Bible, if the central message of the Bible is about the Divinity of Jesus, then we would have seen at least one single verse, that combines both natures of Jesus into one single verse. Just a example, Jesus could have said, I have two natures. Period.  Yet we don’t find that in the entire problem.

Even Christian Apologist named Sam Shamoun from Answering-islam admits, that if pressed He can not show the two natures of Jesus in one person in the Bible, because it’s not there. That precise language, see

2 – Where is the Human nature of Jesus in the afterlife?

We often hear, from Christians how Jesus will be in his new Glorified body, and in the afterlife, He shall be seated at the right hand of the Father. Only the Godly nature of Jesus will be seated on the Throne. So the Question is, where will the Human nature of Jesus go? Why don’t we get any information, where the Human nature of Jesus be? Or are Christians suggesting the Human nature is also seated on the Throne? How can that be possible though when “only” God sits on the Throne? Perhaps Jesus human nature will split from the Godly nature, so are we to believe that there will be Jesus with a twin in the afterlife? We are told that the Human nature of Jesus, endured so much suffering, surely then, He will be compensated with a heavenly abode. So why is there no information on this, since the Human nature was if not the closest human being to perfection. After all Christians tell us, Jesus never commited any sins even by his human nature.

If Christians assert that, Jesus will be spiritualized as the God, sitting at the right hand, then Christians need to explain in book revelations, who is that one that is the lamb and looks slain? (Revelation 5:6) So how can something spiritualized look slain if it’s Jesus? So we are left with so many problems, we have Jesus as the son sitting on the throne as the God, then  Jesus as the Son who looks slain? Why is a Resurrected Jesus looking slain?

3 – Did Jesus commit a Sin with his Human nature? “The Inconsistency”

Christians tell us, Jesus never commited any Sins. And that’s proof, He is God. Well I ask the Christians, if Jesus is God, Because He never commited a Sin, and in doing so your suggesting his a “Perfect being”. What about his human nature? Is that also sinless? If the answer is, Yes! The human nature is also sinless, but wait a minute, I thought the Human nature, is not perfect, only the devine nature is perfect. I mean after all, you tell Muslims, Jesus human nature has flaws which is supposed to be distinct from his Godly nature, so why are we being told, both Jesus human nature and Godly nature are both sinless? This would now only suggest, that Jesus human nature is also Godly, after all it has the ability to resist Sin, even the smallest of the smallest sins?

My short video on this:

3 – Jesus Praying to heaven

When Muslims say how can Jesus be God yet Jesus prayed, did God praye to himself? A Christian will say, no Jesus had (two nature’s) so the human nature of Jesus prayed to his Godly nature. However when reading the Bible we come across the following verse;

“After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you -John 17:1

After reading the above verse one now has to ask the question why on earth would Jesus look towards a direction other then his Godly self if He was God on earth having TWO natures? Why didn’t the human side of Jesus look towards himself, maybe walked up to a pong and tried to look at his own reflection, then ask his own Godly self for Glory.  Yet instead Jesus turns away from himself and glares into the heavens and requests Glory from above. Did not Jesus believe He had two natures?

I would like to ask Christians if God did come to the earth. Show us a example where Jesus himself prayed directly to this earthly God like he prayed to the Heavenly God. This clearly proves the falsehood of the notion that Jesus has two natures, human and God.

20200508_060101

4 – Jesus Godly nature ignores Him.

We read a remarkable, event that takes place in the Bible, where Jesus is lead away into the wilderness, He suffers under Satan’s temptations, and as a result; “An Angel from Heaven appeared to Jesus and Strengthened Jesus” (Luke 22:43)

Now this begs the Question, If Jesus really believed, He had two distinct natures, why is Jesus depending on angels to give him strength? Surely if Jesus believed he was God, He wouldn’t need the assistance of angels, you would think Jesus would simply request his Godly nature who is already present in Jesus to give him strength, so what happened did the Godly nature of Jesus walk off? Did it go to sleep? So where was He?

To answer this, dilemma Christian Apologists suggest that, Jesus wanted to humble himself before the Angels, for why He turned towards Angels to be strengthened. They use this verse:

“But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than Angels for little while.
Hebrews 2:9″

However this makes no sense, isn’t it more important to humble your self before God, then before angels? Also, why would Jesus need to prove that his human nature is lower then Angels? Were the Angels confused about Jesus divinity?

Christians then suggest, why can’t God just use angels to do things for him, however this makes no sense. It’s not as if, God is somewhere in a distant location, or that his just busy doing other things, his right there, inside Jesus, yet He refuses to help Jesus directly himself. This could have been in fact the perfect opportunity for Jesus to prove He has two natures, yet Jesus refuses to request assistance from himself.

5 – The Two natures, Jesus does not know the hour?

The Bible tells us, that Jesus as the Son (the second God head of the trinity), has “NO” knowledge when the “Hour” is, let’s read:

New International Version
“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. (Mathew 24:36)

As you can see the NIV says: nor the son.

However when we read the King James Version & New King James Version:

king James Bible
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. (Mathew 24:36)

New King James Version
“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.

Nor the Son, has been “Removed” from the passage, why?

Todays Biblical Scholars tell us, the (New International Version) bible, is more accurate because it uses much earlier ancient manuscripts, compared to the Manuscipts used for the King James Version.

Now here is the issue, if today’s Christian Apologist say, Jesus has TWO natures, one being God, and one being Human. Therefore when (Mathew 24:36) says, the “Son does not no” when the hour is, this is talking about the (Human nature of the son), and not his Godly nature, therefore this verse does not prove his not God, they argue.

So my question is, then why did the ancient scribes remove: “nor the son“, from the King James version? Surely if they believed ” nor the son” is just talking about the “Human nature” and not the devine nature, they would have left the verse as it is, yet instead they removed it from the passage, dishonestly. They tried to forge it out of the Bible. That tells me, biblical scribes deep down understood “nor the son” displays a problematic display about Jesus being divine and  so they removed it from the text was the best option for them, because they know, not many people are going to buy the arguement like, “oh but wait! that was the “human nature!”. Because the text is clear it says (the son is included) in “not knowing” when the hour Is. Because the text itself even shows that lets read again carefully:

New International Version
“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. (Mathew 24:36)

Lets look at two parts of the text:

no one knows.

So this part of the verse already deals with Jesus human nature.

Then the verse says,

nor the Son

So why would the passage repeat itself and say, nor the son, also means Human nature? If God has already clarified the Human nature not knowing in the first part of the verse, “no one knows”, So the first part of the verse already covers Jesus human nature, so why then would God then need to cover the Human nature by mentioning the Son?

The best explanation I can think of is, it’s as though God predicted,  Christians will claim the Son was God, so God had to also remind them that not knowing the hour, also included the Son!

And because God made it clear to them that Jesus as the Son, was not God by showing us his ignorant of the hour, they tried removing the verse from the text. Now talk about, how dishonest one can be! Of course only now they have added it back to the Bible in the NIV, because they got caught red handed when, ancient manuscripts were studied, and it was found out that the earliest manuscripts did include the “nor the son part” Well thank you for being honest after getting caught red handed!

Christians when refering to “The Human” nature, have no escape! Because God refutes them, even when they try to remove it! Even when they try and twist the verses, they still get exposed! And thats why they were so bothered by the text that includes “The Son” they tried so hard to hide it for so long, that God foiled their plans!

Now here is another point, I will show you, Christians play the inconsistency and the convience card. Just imagine for a moment the verse read:

“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, but only the Son, and the Father knows the hour”.

Of course the verse doesn’t say this, but let’s just imagine it did read this way:

Christians will no longer say this is refering to “human nature”, but this now refers to his “Godly nature”. Why? Because the verse makes Jesus equal with the father. So as you can see, Christians play the convienience card, they quickly claim it’s the Godly nature, when it suits them, and human nature when it goes against them. They will never say, the Son knows, because God shares all secrets with the Son who is just a human and God loves him. No of course they will never accept such explaination, They will instead say, no. The Son knows everything because His God. Period.

6 – Does only the Human nature suffer? Or also God’s nature?

20200517_085836

If Christians claim, God the father did not die on the Cross, and also suffer as the Son. I suggest Christians, to refer to a Christian Apologists by the name of  Dr James White, who believes that The Father, is not a selfish God. He didn’t just send his Son, to suffer for our sins on the Cross. The Father also came down himself to get himself sacrafised along with his Son.  There Dr james white argues, God himself is not selfish, God himself also endured those sufferings.

Dr. James white says” The elective God joined them, Gods death became there Death, in reference to Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit”.

Dr James white confessed to admit this to counter our Question why was the Father selfish that he didnt die himself yet gets his own Son to die. So James white admits there is no selfishness and that the Sons death became there death i.e (The Father and Holy Spirit) and Jesus Christ ressurection became there ressurection (Father and holy Spirit)

Source: https://youtu.be/SzslKkjEb_g
Listen from (minute 63:20)

A Christian shouldn’t feel uncomfortable to talk about his God feeling Hungry, he cries, or goes to bathroom to have a poop, just as God can go through death, he can also do those other human attributes.

7 – Did God die on the Cross or was it only the Human nature?

Christian Apologist disagree with one another:

David Wood vs Jay Smith & Dr James White.

David wood says: “ONLY human Nature Died”. David says it makes no sense that God can die.

However he tries to assume if Jesus became a Man then it was the human nature that died. So God did not Die but only human nature.

Source:

Jaysmith disagree’s with David Wood. And that God can die. See
Jay argues God died. Qoute” He certainly did!

Source: (5.22 minutes)

Dr.James White also disagees with David wood. And that God did die on the Cross!

Qoute:

James says” The elective God joined them, Gods death became there Death, in reference to Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit”.

Dr James white confessed to admit this to counter our Question why was the Father selfish that he didnt die himself yet gets his own Son to die. So James white admits there is no selfishness and that the Sons death became there death i.e (The Father and Holy Spirit) and Jesus Christ ressurection became there ressurection (Father and holy spirit)

Source: https://youtu.be/SzslKkjEb_g
Listen from (minute 63:20)

Who is telling the Truth? Who has the Holy Ghost? The Bible teachers that the Holy Spirit will speak to You and guide You to ALL truth. (John 16:13)

Surely they all can not be Correct?

If We follow David Woods line of thinking, both Jay and Woods concept of God being Eternal Fails according to David if God was killed as both Jay and James white believes. And If We followed in James white and Jay Smiths line of thinking, than that would mean David Woods concept of God fails since his God would be a “Selfish God” as the Father sends the human nature as the Son to die while the father himself pays no penalty of his own, making the father selfish didnt come down himself to die instead sent his Son. Makes his Son sacrifice himself while the father does not sacrifice himself by getting killed as a God

We have put this in video here;

8 –  More Christian mishaps. “Jesus death”.

Muslim tell Christians how can Jesus be God? If Jesus died on the Cross? There are Christians who say, oh no that was only  “The Human Nature that died”.

20200522_143554

I pointed out to Bosingr, is the “Soul” of Ravi Zacharias also God? It does not die, like the Godly nature of Jesus, Interesting Hey?

9 – A Christian admits, His God has Male Genitals.

20200524_074021

So as you can see, Christians are confused and it’s really difficult to get consistency from them, you have some Christians who try to hide the shame that God has a Penis, they will say that was the “Human” side. But then you will have Christians like Dr James White who say, God died (God’s death became their death) so God was in actual fact like a human being, for he became a Human and really did die.

It’s also, Interesting, that Jesus also rose to Heaven, both spiritually and Physically into Heaven. According to book (Revelation 5:6) “He looks Slain” Therefore this would mean God has a physical appearance as Jesus, thus God has Male Genitals even in Heaven as He did as on Earth. And yet the Bible tells us: “God is not a Man” Bible: (Numbers 23:19)

In conclusion: Christian Trinitarians who think that they can simply get away with answering flaws in their God by blaming those flaws on Jesus human nature, only create more problems then solving the questions raised about their Man God.

Please also visit:

https://mustafasahin33.wordpress.com/2021/05/27/jesus-having-two-natures-brings-into-question-jesus-being-sinless/

Standard